Pleco Update

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Pleco Update

Post  DavidZ on Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:24 pm


Here is a picture of the original spawn:




And here is a new spawn with the original albino female and a new regular male. This is a bad pic of one of the regular babies, but i think they just hatched in the last 24 hours. Have seen about 4-5 albino and regular babies.


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Re: Pleco Update

Post  twocat on Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:02 am

Are you seperating the spawn? Any special treatment / food for the fry?

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Re: Pleco Update

Post  DavidZ on Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:32 am



Haven't seperated them yet, although I might in a few days. The parents dont seem to bother the babies.

Nothing special for food other than the driftwood, squash, pleco wafers and a touch of fish food now and then.

They seem to really love the squash so I give that to them 3 times a week or so. The driftwood that I put in there when the first spawn happened is about half gone so they must be eating that as well.

Before I let on vacation Premium had a few really nice sized Albinos for sale. He wanted $25 each but you could probably talk him down.
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Re: Pleco Update

Post  Katnapper on Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:57 pm

Where are you getting your squash? Just wondering if you've been having to buy it, or if you (or family/friends) grew it this year? I'm so glad you mentioned/shared the idea of feeding the squash. I discovered not only my Bristlenose pleco, but my Mystery/Apple snails LOVE it. I had been giving away all my surplus from my garden... until this revelation. After that, my neighbors were suddenly all out of luck for squash. Razz I began deseeding, slicing into large chunks, blanching, and then freezing it. I started doing the same thing with cucumbers too. Both have worked out great. I'm going to find some unwanted pumpkins after Halloween and do the same, after testing and seeing if they like and will eat it. But I can't see any reason they wouldn't like it... just a different type of squash. It could be a boon for free food if it works out! I might be able to set myself up for having enough in the freezer to last until next year's garden starts producing. I also think I'm going to grow some zucchini next summer too.
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Re: Pleco Update

Post  DavidZ on Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:25 pm

I've just been buying them at the store. Might try and grow some next year as well. The fresh ones I just slice and feed. I vacuum the seeds out later. The cheap pumpkins after Halloween is a good idea. Pumpkins are only $1 at Kroger. Not sure if they will like them but its worth a try.

Here is a little better picture of the two gererations. The new baby is circled and is a normal one. The one below it is from the first spawn.

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Re: Pleco Update

Post  Katnapper on Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:43 pm

I like seeing the two generations compared in the same pic. Oh, and the fingers wrapped around the phone reflection too... hehe. Pic is almost eerie, if you try to conjure up a face (where there isn't one) out of the background.

No need to even buy $1 pumpkins... just drive around and look on the curbs next week (and for a few weeks after)! Viola ~ free food! You just need to look for uncarved ones. The carved might be contaminated with who-knows-what, either organic from outside spoilage, or from things people sometimes apply to them to add decoration (paint, etc.) or retard spoilage (Lysol, bleach, petroleum jelly, etc.). I'm thinking I might even pop round to some garden centers or "farmstand"-like places and seeing if they have any they want to get rid of. You gotta get 'em while the gettin's good!
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Re: Pleco Update

Post  DavidZ on Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:50 am



LOL - I didn't notice my hands in the pic until you said something or I would have tried to take a better one. The little boogers move around so much that I was in a hurry to get them in a pic together.

I think I've counted about 12-13 new babies. Thought I saw an albino one eariler, but oddly enough now all I find are normal ones. Would have thought at least 25% of them would be albino.
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Re: Pleco Update

Post  twocat on Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:45 pm

Are both parents albino?

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Re: Pleco Update

Post  DavidZ on Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:44 pm



Only 1 is albino - the female. The male is a gold spot regular. I've counted nearly 20, and I still can not find the albino one I thought I saw eariler. All normal.

DZ
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Re: Pleco Update

Post  twocat on Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:00 am

I have some small ones that I am growing out. In another 6 mths I should be good to go with breeding.

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Re: Pleco Update

Post  Katnapper on Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:48 am

Maybe that particular father is homozygous, and does not carry the recessive gene for albinism.  Do you know for sure he is heterozygous for albinism?  You might have to use one of the spawn from this mating (of which all the "normal" offspring will be heterozygous) crossed with an albino to get a 25% of albinos from the spawn.  (If you are already doing this please excuse and ignore me,  Laughing )
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Re: Pleco Update

Post  twocat on Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:34 am

If there was one fry that was a albino then I would think that the heterozygous for albinism is in this pleco. However I would think that the % would be much higher, unless the die off rate of the eggs was real high. Would my thought be correct?

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Re: Pleco Update

Post  Katnapper on Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:37 am

I agree, Mark, the incidence of even one albino fry would point to the father being heterozygous (excluding the slim possibility of a spontaneous mutation causing albinism in that one individual fry).  But it seems correct that there should be a higher percentage.  

Is it possible, David, that the fry you thought at one point looked albino may have actually been "normal" - either just a lighter individual variation, or at a stage of growth with lighter coloration that makes it appear (especially with wishful thinking) that they are albino?

I love genetics, seriously.  Very Happy
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Re: Pleco Update

Post  DavidZ on Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:18 am



They are very light when they first hatch so it may be possible it was normal. No idea of the lineage of either of these plecos but with the mother obviously albino, wouldnt that prety much insure that at least 25% would be albino?

Hard to count the little dudes, but I know there are 25+ and no albinos.
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Albinos

Post  jikin junkie on Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:34 pm

Albinos are typically very delicate and usually the smallest so it could be that they didn't hatch, died off, or one of the parents is completely normal and not carrying the gene but the fry will be carrying the gene so if you bred the fry together when they are old enough, you would most certainly get albinos. I've bred those by accident years ago, both parents were normal in color but I did get about 10% albino babies. So both parents were carrying the recessive gene. I was unable to raise the fry. Rolling Eyes
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Re: Pleco Update

Post  Katnapper on Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:41 pm

As Gina said (or another way to put it)... even with the mother being albino (having and showing both recessive genes for albinism), the normal father would have to be heterozygous, or carry the recessive gene for albinism, to produce any albino offspring. If he is homozygous for the dominant "normal" (does not carry the recessive gene for albinism) and mated with an albino female, all the offspring will appear "normal" (phenotype appears normal, but carries the gene for albinism) and no albinos will result from that mating. 100% of offspring will be heterozygous "normal," but can bear a percentage of albinos in subsequent matings with either another heterozygous "normal" or an albino parent. I'm suspecting your male of this breeding is homozygous "normal" and does not carry the recessive gene for albinism.
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Re: Pleco Update

Post  twocat on Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:29 pm

But if there are 4 or 5 albino it would have to be heterozygous. Is that correct?

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Re: Pleco Update

Post  Katnapper on Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:13 pm

Yes (the dad)
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Re: Pleco Update

Post  DavidZ on Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:41 pm

Here is both set of babies on some squash:



That might be Mom keeping an eye on them in the background. 2 females in the tank so I'm not positive.
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Re: Pleco Update

Post  DavidZ on Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:50 pm



Here is another pic of the babies as they are getting older. 30 or so of the second spawn, 8-10 from the 1st.

I guess this normal male did not have the recessive albino gene as all of the babies are normal. Must have incorrectly thought I saw an albino one originally. Cute little boogers.


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Normal, IL

Post  Katnapper on Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:08 pm

Or.... maybe they all turned out normal as they were born in Normal. Razz

Yes, they are cute... and even cuter, I'm sure, in real life. I love you

I like the PVC "caves."
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Re: Pleco Update

Post  DavidZ on Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:27 pm



The adults seem to like the PVC, always siting in them and the spawned in them the 2nd time.

Cheap caves!
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